Amps and Moddage

Yes, it's true, not all guitars are acoustics; some have single coils and some have buckers, and all of those have some serious electrons. Build 'em, work on 'em, mods, questions, Put 'em here!
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Eben
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Re: Amps and Moddage

Post by Eben » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:08 am

manitou wrote:I think the difference is like listening to Led Zepplin on vinyl and then the digitally remastered version on CD. I could only stand to listen to half of it, not pretty. E keep writing i'm listening.
Has anyone here ever built a Dynakit or from scratch? I (or my son) have found the need for a small (15w) tube amp for acoustic play. He's using one I built using a 60/60 Peavey but it's too loud and to heavy to haul around. It's the one I've brought to the gathering. We have an idea and would need to be a small chassis. Mark
I hear that, Brotha!

No, I haven't done a scratch build yet, but I want to and have all sorts of components around -
For resources along this line, AX84 is a venerable site with tons of info and great folks:
http://www.ax84.com/
Their links page has sources for all the naughty bits you need too.

Maybe we aught to start a baby tube amp building thread?!

E
‘I love America - I just dont know how to get there anymore.’

John Prine

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Eben
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Re: Amps and Moddage

Post by Eben » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:19 am

OK, it’s probably a good time to discuss relatively easy mods that you can do with your own amps without having to learn a whole bunch of stuff about the technical aspects of building one!

This is an easy topic, because there’s really two areas you can play with; changing speakers and changing tubes.
Now, before we do that, two caveats:
1. TUBE GUITAR AMPS HAVE COMPONENTS THEREIN THAT RUN VERY, VERY HIGH VOLTAGE, and
2. A GUY FRIES REAL QUICK STRUCK BY LIGHTNING.


Got that? The voltage inside these suckers IS lethal and WILL kill you, no joke. If you are not 100% comfortable with the components inside your amp that you want to modify, as well as the potentially lethal ones, DON’T mess around inside one!
Here is a great safety page from the AX84 site: You should go there and read it, rather than having me paraphrase: http://ax84.com/safety.html

OK, so on to changes! The first question that comes to mind is; should I change my tubes on some sort of regular basis anyway? The answer is unequivocally YES – When tubes go of their own accord, they can and do take other stuff with them, and can cause a mess; they won’t always do it, but they can, so why risk additional damage and cost? If you play several nights a week, you should change your tubes once a year or so; maybe a couple years for less use. And again, read that AX84 page and do what they suggest as to use and maintenance of your amp, AKA, treat them as well as you do your axes!

The second question I hear a lot is this; can I just change the tubes in my amp without worrying about bias, etc? I wondered the same thing and asked just that over at the AX84 site. Those nice folks advised that changing tubes to another set of the same thing you have now, (ie replacing somebody’s EL84s with another set), should be no problem. After reading and following the safety rules for handling amps, you can safely change the tubes without doing any further tweaking to your amp and do so with reasonable assurance that you won’t hurt the amp. Furthermore, you can also change compatible different tubes without doing anything else to your amp – Check out this link - http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/tubesearch.php; if you punch in an EL84, and then click the link, you’ll see a great sheet that shows what other tubes are close or identical, (Others that have the same rating, general performance, pinout, and filament voltage). Pretty cool, huh? Makes it easier and safer to try other things if you’re of a mind!

OK, third common question; will changing the speaker and/or the tubes actually change the sound of your amp? The answer is a resounding yes! Let’s say that yours uses AX7As in the preamp phase and EL84s for the power tubes as mine does. Will a set of AX7As from Groove Tubes sound different from a set produced by Electro-Harmonix? Yes, they will, somewhat, although the diffs may not in and of themselves be profound. In a low gain amp like mine, some tubes may be quieter while others may have more noise, albeit in a way that you like. To me, the E-H tube pushes less bass than the GTs, (Which I want), and is a smoother and cleaner sound up through the gain, (Which I also want), so it’s a natural selection for me; you obviously might be looking for something else. The trouble is that the sound you get is certainly subjective, and as you start researching tubes and speakers, you begin to feel like your reading reviews in Wine Spectator, it’s the same kinda hype in a lot of ways: Nonetheless, they do all sound different, and you do kinda need to poke around and try different stuff to find what you like – Just like pickups or strings, you’ll likely land on a preference that works for you.

Speakers, in my opinion, can make a much wider difference than tubes in the sound of your amp. From Eminence to Celestion to Jensen and Electro Voice to Fender, there’s a ton of variety out there. And be ready, ‘cause here’s where the descriptive hype gets thick; check out the schpiel on the one I chose; “The Celestion G12H is a reissue of their 12" guitar speaker that was re-released in 1994 for the Celestion 70th anniversary. Loud and proud thanks to its heavy magnet structure, the G12H provides a fusion of the Vintage 30 and the Greenback speaker characteristics, producing a thick, warm and syrupy sound while still retaining a tight and focused bottom end. When played clean the G12H remains clear and musical without ever sounding harsh. In overdrive, pick attack is vividly articulated with sustained notes trailing off into warm harmonic tones.” Wow, I’ll take a case of that stuff in ’99 please! Anyway, you get the idea, they all DO sound different, some more than others, so the ability for you to tweak your sound with a speaker change alone is pretty vast.

E
‘I love America - I just dont know how to get there anymore.’

John Prine

UrbanMonique Food Blog

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Rich Schnee
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Re: Amps and Moddage

Post by Rich Schnee » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:23 pm

Back in the eighties, I walked into my local music store and I heard some kid ripping it up on an axe from off the floor. Man…this kid was a real shredder with all the licks and chops, he could play anything. His sound was amazing. He was playing through an ENGL straight head into a 4X12 Marshall cabinet. I decided that was the sound I wanted so I shelled out a grand and bought the amp. That amp was far better than what I was using at the time and any of the amps I had used prior, but it never sounded as good as it did that day in the store. I learned my first lesson in regards to tone. The player has a huge impact on the sound. EVH himself could have given me his Rig, but with me at the helm, it would never sound like him.

I eventually replaced the Philips 6L6GC with a balanced set of china tubes. The amp sounded terrible, so I put a set of Groove Tubes (I think were Russian) in and it wasn’t much of an improvement. (Yes. I biased the amp each time). I then moved on to a Marshell JMP-1 and a Mesa Simul-class 2x90.

Recently I bought a Vetta II. Good tone at low volume and a direct into my PC. My days of recording with my amp on 10 in a sound proof room or using a power soak are in the past.

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Re: Amps and Moddage

Post by Eben » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:01 pm

That is soooo funny Rich!

You hit it on the nail head!

I don't know how many hours and dollars I've wasted by NOT paying attention to that simple adage!

E
‘I love America - I just dont know how to get there anymore.’

John Prine

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Re: Amps and Moddage

Post by Eben » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:52 am

OK, I've switched out speaker and tubes, and took dirty and clean sound samples before, after speaker and then after speaker and tubes. Soon as I get my poop in a group, I'll get all that posted...

E
‘I love America - I just dont know how to get there anymore.’

John Prine

UrbanMonique Food Blog

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Re: Amps and Moddage

Post by Eben » Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:02 pm

OK, so here we go -

First things first - Here's clean and dirty from this amp prior to any changes. Oh and all recordings here are dry, straight to my little Roland with no tweaking pre or post - What you hear is the noise I made...


So, I pull the cover and go after the speaker first - AKA, easiest first, eh?

Here's the old speaker comin' out, just 4 screws...
Image

Here she is ready for the new Celestion, and I packed the old one away in the very nice Celestion packaging - NEVER discard or sell the old speaker until you are absolutely sure you dig the new one, and maybe not even then... With the old speaker out, you can clearly see the EL84 power tubes right and AX7 pre amp tubes left
Image

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New speaker installed and good to go - Any reputable brand will have identical screw spacing for a given speaker size, FYI...
Image

And so now we go to sound check with new speaker only, still the old tubes...


And finally, it's tube swap time.

Now, here's the Palomino guts, and notice something cool about these amps - The power supply, with the capacitors, is separate from the control section and can be completely detached from same with 2 RCA plugs - This is good because them caps is what you must fear in an open tube amp - They store up to 500 volts, and they can hold that charge up to ONE YEAR, no bullshit - Unless you know exactly what they are and how to safely drain them, NEVER fuck around in the guts of your amp, it can and will kill ya in the worst of cases... With this one, I detach power supply and speaker before fooling with tubes. Tubes are straightforward; treat them like halogen bulbs and never touch them with your fingers - Use a clean paper towel or cloth. Never force or over tweak a tube coming out or going in; be gentle, look at what your plugging in and be sure it's right before you do it!
Image

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Box up your old ones, if they've not failed, and put them in your gig bag along with a couple spare fuses for your amp; this is the shit that blows out when you need it at 8:45 pm on Saturday night in a bar where they nail human ears to the wall; you don't want your gear failing then and there, savvy?

:shock: :lol:

And so here she is with all new stuff - The changes may seem subtle in some ways, and not in others, but I can hear what I wanted; much greater mid range depth, more backbone all through the tones, less jangly highs, meatier lows - THIS is what I was after! I love the new sound and am very pumped to take 'er out for a spin!


Enjoy!

E
‘I love America - I just dont know how to get there anymore.’

John Prine

UrbanMonique Food Blog

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Eben
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Re: Amps and Moddage

Post by Eben » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:14 pm

Hey!

Y'all payin' attention?

I did some good work here, damnit...

;) 8-) :lol:

E
‘I love America - I just dont know how to get there anymore.’

John Prine

UrbanMonique Food Blog

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Re: Amps and Moddage

Post by Rich Schnee » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:50 pm

I’m paying attention…good work Eben!!!

Here are some thoughts.

I have never treated my Tubes as if they were Halogens. What is the theory behind that?

It’s good practice to install a bleeder resistor across the caps. I do it when ever I work on an amp as a safety measure for whom ever works on it after I do.

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