Grand Concert for Freegift, Builder Swap

By Mr. Joe Sustaire of Talihina, OK
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Joe Sustaire
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Re: Grand Concert for Freegift, Builder Swap

Post by Joe Sustaire » Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:59 am

Thanks Dennis, and yeah it's also looking like Dean won't have to learn to play lap-style on a square neck. :D

Oh yeah, looks like I left out a rather crucial detail Dave. Double backed tape, the fabric kind, I think it's called carpet tape over here, used under the edge of carpet to keep it in place. It's pretty powerful stuff, I also use it to hold cauls in place for gluing the bridge and fretboard overhang and have learned from experience to use the least possible to keep the caul in place as I've had a few times when I thought I wasn't going to be able to get the caul unstuck after being clamped overnight. It seemed to do a good job of holding the template in place for routing but I did a couple of test runs on some pine to make sure first.

Another thing I forgot to mention is how I made the template. I used Hann's method from his Spanish neck joint tute in the jigs and fixtures section, where the headstock is sawn apart on the bandsaw and then glued back together, avoids the wiggles and jiggles you get from trying to cut the slots on the scrollsaw or handheld jigsaw.

So this did make for a cleaner job, but it's still pretty nerve wracking routing those slots and hoping something doesn't shift or splinter. Definitely need to get a good spiral carbide bit before I do it again, and would probably be smart to cut the slots before doing all the neck shaping in case you blow a slot then at least you won't have wasted all that time carving.

Or hey, maybe get smarter yet and do paddle heads instead?

Naaa!

Joe
"I tell you we are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anyone tell you any different!"
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Re: Grand Concert for Freegift, Builder Swap

Post by Matthew Jenkins » Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:16 pm

That's looking mighty fine Joe.
That's going to look stunning under finish!
I have to say, double sided tape has to be the most used 'tool' in my shop. I use it on almost every part of the build in some way.
M

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Re: Grand Concert for Freegift, Builder Swap

Post by Joe Sustaire » Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:16 pm

Well shit!!!

Thought it was time to get back on this one and what do I find?
Image

Image

Image

Image
Tired of looking at claro walnut cracks yet? I know I am! Basically a line of cracks down each side following grain lines, but not continuous. Claro Walnut = California Crack Wood? Remember on page two, the first backset for this guitar cracked and had to be replaced. Think I'll stick with mahogany from now on.

Where do you go from here? Any suggestions? Cleat the cracks, bang it up a bit and call it a "vintage" Martin?
Shit!
Sorry Dean,
Joe
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Re: Grand Concert for Freegift, Builder Swap

Post by DaveWhite » Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:40 pm

Joe,

Bummer !! Has the instrument been subject to big changes in humidity or temperature? Was the wood dried enough when you started building? I think I'd want to know what's causing this first before thinking about options - as in if you fix these are there more cracks to come?
Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments

". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

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Re: Grand Concert for Freegift, Builder Swap

Post by Dennis Leahy » Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:22 pm

Shit!
Dennis Leahy

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Re: Grand Concert for Freegift, Builder Swap

Post by Dennis Leahy » Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:41 pm

Joe,

Another back set (from a different board) on its way to you tomorrow...

I know that is a drop in the bucket compared to the labor to get back to the point you were at. I'm really sorry Joe - I saw no flaws in that wood.

Dennis
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Re: Grand Concert for Freegift, Builder Swap

Post by Joe Sustaire » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:48 pm

I don't know guys, I don't have any way to control humidity in my shop. I do a wood stove to keep it from freezing and I built a hair hygrometer so I know when to brace plates. It's basically been a pretty wet winter we haven't had any low humidity times and when I've got the fire going it only gets the humidity down to the 45 to 50 percent range. I've got two other closed boxes hanging in there also and they're fine so far.

Now I probably didn't have my hygrometer built when this one was braced, so maybe it was braced at the wrong time. The top is fine, no cracks there. Who knows. I think maybe I should stick to vintage models, no sound ports or flying buttresses. That way when this happens I can just rough it up a bit more and pass them off as true vintage blues machines! :D

I don't know Dennis, you know the first two sets of that wood I had in the shop for a while and when I went to use them they had cracks. This set you shipped to me and I braced it up probably within a week or so, and it looked fine then. So maybe it is the change from your climate to here? I don't know, I'm sure not saying it's your wood.

I'm for sure not building in a climate controlled shop and that may be what's biting me in the ass, :wallbang:
Joe
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Re: Grand Concert for Freegift, Builder Swap

Post by Dennis Leahy » Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:04 pm

Hi Joe,

This just sucks, that you have so much work into that box.

I'd have to check with Grant to see if his memory about the timing is any better than mine, as I had him slice up some Claro boards for me. I'd say at least 3 months elapsed between the slicing of the boards, and them getting into your hands. It could have been more like 6 months, but not less than 3 months. They were stickered. I don't have a moisture meter, but the wood did not feel the slightest bit damp or cool to the touch. In my estimation, it was dry and stable and ready to work, but maybe I am wrong.

My gut says the cracking is from drying after being glued to the rims. The wood was either too fresh/moist when I shipped it, or else it gained moisture when it left my dry environment (I had to use humidifiers all fall and winter to get my RH up to 40% to 50%) and got into your environment, then got braced at whatever that percentage of moisture was in the wood at that moment, and finally either the back plates alone or the whole shop dried a bit and the wood cracked as it shrank. I sold several other sets from the same board, and I have not heard back from anyone about the wood cracking, (which may mean no one used it yet, or that the wood was OK.) Again, just a gut instinct that makes me guess that your shop is quite a bit drier now than the day it was braced. Claro is supposed to be 4.3% radial shrinkage (compared to 3.0 for H Mahogany), so it's pretty darn stable but not the legendary stability of Mahogany.

In any case, I have another back set from a different board that I'm shipping to you tomorrow. I sure hope that solves it and I'm really sorry you're having to go through this extra pain in the ass - especially if the problem was the moisture content of the wood as I shipped it.

Dennis
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